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Message Board>
Permanent Makeup
My thoughts on training
Lizzy
951 posts
Jul 01, 2009
7:03 AM
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My thoughts on training...
In the beginning we truly "don't know what we don't know". This message board has been a blessing to me. At one time or another I might not liked what I was told, but I took it, humbly, swallowed my losses and looked for more training.
I would love to see more trainers offer apprenticeship type classes,but I do realize that not everyone lives in an area where there is a trainer who offers this type of program.In my opinion it would be very helpful to a learning technician to be able to see the work they
performed, how the color healed, how the design looks, get input from the model etc and spend more time with their trainer. In other words a program that is more like a traditional tattoo apprenticeship.
I am in hopes that this will encourage trainers who read the message board to consider revamping their programs to allow for it when possible.
Unfortunately for many of us (me included) don't know exactly what we are looking for in a fundamental trainer. There are very few trainers that I know of offering apprentice type training. So what is left to choose from are short term programs which look more appealing when considering family or work schedules, so part of the problem is the demand from students wanting to take a down and dirty class and get back to their businesses, etc.
The pioneers that post here on this board are dedicated to our industry. Many of them offer intense training programs that you can be assured that when you are finished you will be confident to work on your own. I encourage anyone who is looking for training to contact the SPCP or one of these great ladies on our board. For those using the
Neo Tat, I would definitely not miss Rozan and Kates class.
We are never beyond learning. It was once said
here "Without continuing our education we risk becoming antiquated in our techniques, an island unto ourselves “. No true er words ever spoken.
I have clients come to me often that has had prior work done by local artists who have been in the industry for many more years than I ,and their work is inadequate.
I recently spent two days with Teryn Darling, an incredible artist and trainer, to refined my techniques by learning more traditional tattooing techniques that will be transferred over to my permanent cosmetic work. This is not a new technique. In fact it is very similar to how I first learned. It may be new to those who have not practiced it, but it is actually used every day in the traditional tattoo world.
I had gone back to using a coil and felt I neede some "fine tuning"
literally. These techniques are not limited to the coil, they can be performed with any machine I believe.
I cant speak more highly of this woman. Margie Grimm is her mentor. I can list her with the most respected women in our industry. There was talk that the two of them are working on offering a class in the fall,
specifically for eyeliner and using these techniques. I would take it in a heartbeat just to watch her work again.
There are my thoughts on training. It took two and 1/2 years to come to truly "know what I know, and what I don't know", about our world in
Cosmetic Tattooing.(and I hear there's a 5 yr learning curve)!
Lizzy
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Maggie
1712 posts
Jul 01, 2009
12:54 PM
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Lizzy, thanks for that. I so love the apprenticeship concept. Not that classes do not have their place but in a perfect world it certainly would be a combination of both. We need more of the Teryn Darlings and Margie Grimms in this industry....and more of you too, Lizzy!
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Brandy
661 posts
Jul 01, 2009
1:11 PM
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And I thank you too Lizzy!
What I find most puzzling is the mind set that a couple of weeks training is enough. When you choose a profession that commands a six figure salary, most people realize that there will be a fair amount of schooling. And yet PMU people want the salary but are not willing to make the sacrifices to get there.
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PositiveSpirit
10 posts
Jul 01, 2009
5:43 PM
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And I agree too Lizzy! I'm new to the industry and realize that basic training doesn't even come close to teaching all that is needed. I'm looking for for someone to do an apprenticeship with as we speak. I'm in the northeast and haven't had any luck yet. So...looks like I'll be taking many more classes! I'm hoping to get across the country at some point to take a class or two with Margie! Thanks for pointing out this very important aspect of the industry!
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Lizzy
952 posts
Jul 01, 2009
6:43 PM
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Oh no, thank you!
I know that the SPCP is always trying to raise the hours for fundamental training. That is the responsible approach. They are doing all they can to raise the awareness of these issues.
I would like to encourage those looking to begin a career in this field to take careful consideration of the dedication, hours, money, and time it will take to be successful, and that is just to get started.
100 hours in my opinion is not enough to prepare us.
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Ms. M
253 posts
Jul 01, 2009
9:49 PM
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Lizzy brings up an interesting subject to discuss. Interesting inasmuch as there are several elements at play here. The offering of particular training programs, the expectations of a potential student, and the availability of a qualified trainer.
Imagine that a person wants to be a nurse, or a dental technician, or an engineer. You can pick almost any popular career and apply the same educational requirements. People are required to go to school, and in these particular examples (which is not unusual for all structured careers) usually for an extended period of time. They are expected to study, to attend classes, pass examinations and within that educational structure to meet all expectations set forth in the program(s). No one questions it, people who desire a particular structured career path accept it, plan for it, pays for it, and goes through the programs as required.
If they do not meet the requrements, there is no question that they will not be provided with the credentials to pursue their desired career. No one expects their college money to be returned if they fail to meet the standards and they move on.
In many instances these long-term educational programs can result in a person making as little as $10.00 - $30.00 per hour or more depending on the career selected, and having student loans to repay. No one questions it.
For some reason people do not, in all instances, take that conceptual approach with permanent cosemtics. People looking into training often expect, and I do stress the term "expect," a short term class, as inexpensive as they can find, and to be very good at tattooing after a whirlwind program.
Trainers who offer longer programs often are not selected because the potential student may have to travel, or pay too much for a hotel stay, or be away from family for too long. I've heard about every reason there is (I would suppose) why a person cannot take a class that takes them away from their current activities or causes any disruptions in their social or professional lives.
On one hand we have the potential student who has urealistic excpectations. In those states where tattooing is not regulated by the goverment, some potential students just don't take what is offered as seriously as they should. Get the goverment invovled, make the course mandatory, make it a pass or no pass licensed program and all of a sudden people just simply don't question it. Go figure.
It takes a lot to put together a successful training program, stand by a student through the pre-class study period, work with them on design applications, theory, arrange for qualified models etc. I think good trainers earn every dollar of tuition they receive (within reason of course.)
The SPCP is an excellent source for trainers, we just need more of them. Possibily when there are more SPCP trainers in more states the concept of the apprinticeship will be more available to those who want to take classes.
Thank you Lizzy for brining this subject to the message board. It's good to get minds together; it's how things change.
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LiZa
3441 posts
Jul 02, 2009
7:32 AM
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a great post LiZZy
Liza Sims, Wake Up w/ Makeup LLC, Alaska
Permanent Makeup MythBuster Blog
Cosmetic Tattoo Home
LI Pigments Online Store
Citius, Altius, Fortius!
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frostellie
344 posts
Jul 03, 2009
3:17 AM
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I am in agreement with you 100%, Lizzy. After almost seven years I can say I'm pretty darn good, but there is still more to learn. I think a person should have at the very least 100 procedures under their belt before hanging their sign out. I just kept a low profile my first few years and let people come in for as many touch ups as needed because I knew I would be safer on the conservative side. I also did a lot of family and friends. I made a few mistakes that I regret, but no serious ones. I do not know why there are not more apprenticeships available. I paid $7,500 for training in Oregon in 2003 after training for 50 hrs in Florida for $2,000. How many real people did I work on in my training? Let's see; three in Florida and two in Oregon. I was pretty much left to my own resources in many ways, though I passed my state licensing. Many people feel the same way you do. I too hope the standards for education will change. Workshops are great for continuing ed and and technique understanding, but they are not the nitty-gritty.
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Ms. M
255 posts
Jul 03, 2009
8:24 AM
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I hope this thread continues to get attention and that anyone considering traning takes it to heart.
When there is a public demand for longer training hours and/or apprentship programs, they will be more available. As long as the public forces trainers who would otherwise offer these type classes to complete with short term, inexpensive, here's a couple of pigments and a machine you know nothing about classes, change will be slow.
Unless regulation forces the issue, public demand is the driving force.
Another option is to realize that not all procedures can or should be learned in a fundamental training class. In my opinion, if good sound theory and device/needle grouping was taught and design work only to include only brow tattooing was taught in a fundamental class, I think we would ultimately have better and more confident technicians. Let's face it a good percentage of people who get into this industry already have another profession. Brows would be a handsome addition to their list of services. Once brows are mastered they then come back to class for top eyeliner. Again they return after a good term class and add that to the list of services, and so it goes. There are ways of doing this but again, and I'll ride this horse until it dies, there has to be a demand.
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Ms. M
256 posts
Jul 03, 2009
8:37 AM
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I'll play the devel's advocate here. Looking back and adding up all the money spent on training over a period of time is quite enlightening. However, lets say you didn't have that experience behind you. Just how much would you pay for an apprentiship program for say 300 hours (just picking a number of hours out of the air.)
While I'm on this subject, there are nmany ways to offer apprenticship programs. As an example, I've been working with a student now since March. We scheduled days that were convenient for both of. Two day here, three there, and so on. She now does beautiful brows, has nailed color theory (as best as a new person in this industry can without years of application of that theory) and is quite confident on upper liners. Lower liners are still quite challenging for her and she's back practicing her stretch for that procedures. Lips are not even in the immediate future for her in her mind. She's realistic, dedicated and approached permanent cosemtics like a career, not like a hobby or a quick way to make some money.
Qualified trainers make good money at just doing their own client's procedures. Training well takes a lot of energy, planning and patience. It is only fair that trainers get paid for their time and expertise.
So.....just for fun, what would you be willing to pay for a 300 hour apprentiship type class?
Looking back and applying the value of experience is how we all learn, but try getting a new person to realize these facts and to be willing to pay for a longer term class and allow for the time invovled with all the shorter term (40 hours, etc.) program is something else.
Qualifed trainers and their desire to train well are not the problem here, it's the public's demand for shorter term classes and less tuition that is the problem.
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frostellie
345 posts
Jul 03, 2009
12:54 PM
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I paid $7,500 for what was allegedly 360 hrs where I worked on two live people. I would have been willing to pay $20,000 if I had a mentor who would help me through at least 50 procedures. I like your method of training. It is probably more cost effective to pay as you go as well. Also, if apprenticeships were tailored to the individual it would help a lot. I have tons of background in art and portrait painting. I didn't need much in the area of design or color theory. I thought my art background gave me an edge and it does in some ways, but skin is way different from paper, canvas, or clay! I think you are right on when it comes to public demand, but the industry standards must be raised. Every time I see bad-looking work, I think that reflects on all of us. You know, "If that what permanent makeup look like, I don't want it." I don't know what a good cosmetology school costs, but it should cost at least that much.
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Brandy
662 posts
Jul 03, 2009
1:55 PM
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Ms. M you are spot on. We can make much more doing PMU than teaching. That said, I do take on apprentices. I charge a set rate and the program is tailored to suit each individual. I do a one on one only. The apprentice I have now works full time and she is here for about two hours per day for 3 days and then does two full eight hour days. She will be with me for about one year.
It is a huge responsibility for me take someone on, as well as alot of work, planning and advertising.
The schools that offer 5-10 day training courses would go broke if they offered apprenticeships. They are in it for the money, get em in, get em out, and they will always find students.
Alot of people entering this profession do not know where to turn for training and most will look for someone close to home and reasonably priced. Some of them don't even know the SPCP exists. Especially those that do not live in the U.S.
Somehow we need to get more information out there.
Last Edited on 4-Jul-2009 12:23 PM
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Maggie
1719 posts
Jul 03, 2009
3:57 PM
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This thread has been wonderful. Those of you that have been around for awhile know that this is something I have discussed or commented on multiple times over the years. It is truly refreshing and uplifting to see this topic out there. The industry will grow stronger with you all leading the way through example and by simply demanding appropriate fundamental training.
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Ms. M
257 posts
Jul 03, 2009
8:34 PM
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Maggie is right on. The change will come from a public demand for better fundamental programs. However, in the mean time, trainers are not limited to a 100 hour (in unregulated states) program. This is a minimum set forth by the SPCP; there is no maximum. So, what I suggest to kick this concept off as a reality is that more trainers extend their programs a bit. Small changes are usually more acceptable than large changes. Add more constructive pre-class study elements. Even though 35 hours is the maximum that can be recognized, that doesn't mean more hours cannot be imposed for a better understanding of permanent cosmetics before the student arrives for the on-site program. Local students really appreciate the opportunity to observe. This enables them to prepare for their hands-on procedures. They mentally record a lot of information during observations sessions. I have found that I actually miss them when they are not there. They are a lot of help, company and it makes the day go quickly. Have pre-class orientation sessions. This can consume 2-4 hours just preparing the local student for what they have embarked upon.
Anyway, there are lots of creative ways to expand classes without a complete makeover. Eventually some of these (and others) concepts will become more the norm.
This industry started out on the wrong foot. Down and dirty, fast, easy money, large classroom sizes, few hands on procedures, etc. We are now in the process of doing "damage control" and trying to reinvent what always should have been.
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Ms. M
258 posts
Jul 03, 2009
8:40 PM
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Also, the concept of extending programs out to allow for models to return so that the student not only sees the healed work they performed, but to also provide for the follow-up procedure is invaluable. They learn so much from this. The trainer benefits because instead of one procedure, the student performs two procedures (orginal and follow-up) on the same model. One of the weak elements in this industry for hands-on pratical work is often models. This concept enables models to get their work performed by one technician only, the student to see healed color and design work and to perform the follow-up work and for the trainer to count on one model providing the opportunity for two procedures, and usally more. Once a relationship is established between the student and the model, it is common for them to ask for other procedures.
Trainers should play around with some of these ideas; and I and everyone on this board welcomes other ideas as well. Let's keep this thread moving a positive direction.
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frostellie
347 posts
Jul 04, 2009
11:08 AM
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Brandy; If I knew you did apprenticeships (and knew how phenomenal you are,) I would have found a way to move up there and get an apprenticeship from you. $10,000 is VERY reasonable too.
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KatALyst
122 posts
Jul 05, 2009
7:01 PM
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Wow. I guess I'm lucky. My trainer/apprentice paid for all my fundamental training up front, and then I worked under her for several years (still got a percentage for my work) while I worked off the remaining training fee and she reaped the benefits of me working under her. I never actually paid a fee TO apprentice with her, but it was a lot of blood sweat and tears. I suppose the best kind of currency...
The idea was I would eventually buy her business as she retired. (Which is why she picked me to train and set up.) Unfortunately I ended up moving to KY instead and starting over on my own without the benefit of her LOOONGGG established clientele...
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~Kat, CPCP~
SPCP Member & Certified
Western KY
www.CosmeticBeautySalon.com
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karla kwist
422 posts
Jul 05, 2009
10:09 PM
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I say a big uggg and push on for better training, but it is very seductive when some people offer some form of what they call training but is really sort of more introduction to the craft and offer a certificate and then the technician think they are "certified" and move on with their idea of this art form. Tattoo artists do long internships and for a good reason, it gives you time to do work, see it come back and learn.
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Karla Kwist,CPCP
Las Vegas
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Lizzy
956 posts
Jul 12, 2009
7:51 PM
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Perhaps, as equally important for the need of better fundamental training in my opinion is for students considering a career in Permanent Cosmetics to research quality elements of the "training programs" when looking for the right trainer. It is up to the individual to research thoroughly any training program they are considering. Ideally, the training program you select will have all these elements. If you want the best for your career, then it is worth the time and effort into finding the right one.
Look to their qualifications and credentials.
Do they have a course curriculum, what type of procedures, colors, and equipment are used?
Have they met the Society's strict guidelines for trainers?
Ask to see healed photos of the techniques you will be taught. Is this what you would like your procedures to look like? Ask to see healed photos of thier oun work.
Will they allow you to sit in on a class?
Ask for referrals.
Is there emphasis placed on performing procedures in a safe, sterile working environment?
Ask if they offer a support system for after you graduate.
I feel it is important to have a good rapore with your trainer.
This is your future. Take the time to do your research.
Also I would like to add is as in any learning environment some of us have good retention, others have to work harder at it. Many times after a long day at class there is only so much we retain.
Without an extended, well-planned training program we cannot expect to have a complete working knowledge as Ms.M pointed out.
Lizzy
Last Edited on 13-Jul-2009 11:17 AM
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