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Permanent Makeup

Tribal ink for eyeliner

KISAWA 27 posts Jun 16, 2009 12:04 PM	What do you think? Is it possible to use a Tribal ink to make an eyeliner as those type of ink are reaaaaally black? Would they give any adverse reactions?
KatALyst 110 posts Jun 16, 2009 12:54 PM	I like my black... its reaaaaaly black to me... (digital photo color not touched up) http://www.cosmeticbeautysalon.com/actphotoeyesclose.jpg/actphotoeyesclose-full.jpg Adverse reactions are extremely rare when you use...black... as in regular PMU pigment iron oxide... Is Tribal carbon? ---------- ~Kat, CPCP~ SPCP Member & Certified Western KY www.CosmeticBeautySalon.com
Jane Adler 1022 posts Jun 16, 2009 1:13 PM	Tribal black is for fill in, hence the name and only for body art. Can migrate if used alone for lining of body art and for sure eyeliner!!!!!!!!!!! Educate clients on the realty of black!! Say, "NO"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Use what is tried and true, do not step back in time and make mistakes. ---------- Jane Adler, CPCP Facial Art by Jane SofTap® Distributor http://www.janeadler.com
Hollis Mc 210 posts Jun 16, 2009 3:15 PM	Oh Thank you Jane. I'm sooo glad someone said something. ---------- Hollis McCartney
scouser1 132 posts Jun 16, 2009 8:39 PM	If there's one thing the PM industry should try and do is make a black pigment that looks like a TRUE BLACK. I just did an eyeliner a few weeks ago in Onyx, she came back for a small touch up and it looks very nice, she was happy, but it's NOT BLACK, it's almost NAVY! HONESTLY!!!!! I will say (DARE I say it), I always used Premier's Black Black, and it never failed me - it looks BLACK! But I've changed my pigments since I've started on this site, but now, no black that looks black! (go on you techs - tell me it's my technique!)
Jane Adler 1024 posts Jun 16, 2009 9:06 PM	How about of the Reality of safe blacks on thin skin and the clients skin tone. Reality bites. Clients heal in variables of tones. At least in my world. Many of use could elaborate on this, but why? You do not listen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not all of course. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ---------- Jane Adler, CPCP Facial Art by Jane SofTap® Distributor http://www.janeadler.com
Brandy 643 posts Jun 16, 2009 10:12 PM	Jane's right, black heals differently on every client. Once it heals into the skin it changes in hue and intensity. The blacks that are safe for us to use, do this. It is what it is. I always tell my clients that they will never get a liquid looking black eyeliner with tattooing. It will always difuse to a smoky black. Most are happy with this. There are many manufacturers out there that market their blacks as the blackest you can get and yet they do not disclose the fact that they are selling carbon based blacks. The carbon based blacks can turn into horror stories for those that do not have the experience to use them. I have many pictures of women with horrid migration that have come to me and asked for help. Top eyeliner can sometimes be corrected, but the bottom liner that has started to tear down in globs cannot not be fixed with more tattooing. My own eyeliner was done several years ago when I stupidly consented to be a model at a hotel by someone who should not have been teaching. It did not occur to me that carbon black may have been used, until about three years ago when I started noticing that my bottom eyeliner seemed to have thickened quite a bit. I got out my 10X mag mirror and to my horror I could see dots coming down from the line. MIGRATION! So you see it can happen years after you first have it done. Remember, not only do you want the tattooing to look good today, but also in years to come. Do not search for something that is not safe.
karla kwist 411 posts Jun 16, 2009 10:41 PM	I have great success with onyx, but again skin can change the "impression of color". I cannot define or underline, capitalize or state strongly enough that we should be staying away from tattoo inks in our industry. I had a set of gun metal brows the other day from a technician in town that is using "big bottles" and mixing her own colors, the term "big bottles" was given to me by the client when she saw my smaller sized bottles and recognized the contrast in size. Initially as I understand before these newer version of pigments that are currently made specific for our usage were developed, they were using these inks and the new pigments developed for current usage because the tradition tattoo inks were problematic. ---------- Karla Kwist,CPCP Las Vegas
KISAWA 28 posts Jun 17, 2009 12:16 AM	Thank you! But sometimes I get customers who tell me that "regular" PM pigments would not "stay" so the tech used tattoing ink and then it stayed. And since PM is a tattoo....
KatALyst 111 posts Jun 17, 2009 6:48 AM	Tattooing ink in most cases I think is still iron oxide pigment. (Carbon being an exception. What a wierd story, little dots 'falling' down!) I have used tattoo black ink in a pinch when I dumped my black over and had a client that day. But Tribal ink is made to 'spread' I guess from the previous posts so that it will densely fill in a piece without looking spotty...? And so is not good for our precision eyeliners. And yes, I think if you want black to show up good, you have to really go over and over it. I've personally never had navy blue turn up (client undertone no guarauntee), more like the smokey blacks and even some very-nearly-true blacks, and I think it's just how dense you go over the color. Two passes is not going to cut it in my experience... ---------- ~Kat, CPCP~ SPCP Member & Certified Western KY www.CosmeticBeautySalon.com
Brandy 645 posts Jun 17, 2009 8:34 AM	KISAWA, what is your definition of PMU pigments not staying? First of all you should not give your clients unrealistic expectations. PMU pigments can last anywhere from one to three years, sometimes a bit longer. They are safe because they have insurance agents added to them so that they will fade naturally. Not to mention, you get the repeat business with touch ups. If you were to use body pigments, they would last decades, but there would be alot of women walking around with weird alien colors and you would be sitting on your butt with nothing to do. Last Edited on 17-Jun-2009 8:35 AM
scouser1 134 posts Jun 18, 2009 6:47 PM	ha ha - Brandy makes a good point about future business. I wish I knew how to upload a picture on this site & I'd show you how this liner looked. Very nice black after about 3 passes each side, then healed to a navy. Yes, navy. Glad she was happy however. But it is frustrating. I agree about the carbon black. But I think I'd feel safe using it conservatively as a narrow upper liner not extending out too far. Also, I agree with Jane - yes, thin skinned clients you have to be VERY careful with and a lot of my clients are older women with thinner skin, and I personally don't really like a true black on an older woman anyway, but each to their own. But don't get mad Jane - we do know the "story" about blacks, but sometimes it's good to share your frustrations. Last Edited on 18-Jun-2009 6:48 PM
karla kwist 414 posts Jul 05, 2009 12:06 PM	I have taken onyx and placed it in salt water for about six months and then I usually throw them out aftr I test them, but just for giggles I saved that one for about a year and it never turned blue in the jar. There is absolutely no blue in it. You can test them yourself, place a few drops in two glass containers,both in distilled water......then add two tablespoons of seal salt to one of them and date them....if there is any blue in the color you will see the one with salt turning that navy blue hue (some clothes that you thought were black fade this way too). I find degrading my colors allows me to predict how they will fade once in the skin. ---------- Karla Kwist,CPCP Las Vegas