kimber
7 posts
Jun 03, 2009
9:52 AM
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I recently saw a client that just got her brows done 6 weeks ago and they healed too dark. Almost blackish blue in color and I want to lighten them. Has anyone used the Caribean Mod I think it's called, by "AQUA" to lighten dark colors before? Any advice would be great.
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frostellie
333 posts
Jun 03, 2009
11:03 AM
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It sounds like someone was heavy on the carbon. This is a tough situation because that carbon will trump everything and leave blue behind.I used some Caribean Mod a few times in these situations and it will help get the blue out, but I don't think it lightens it. At least not in my experience. In these situations I ask the client if she went to her follow-up appointment with the first tech. I tell her I charge full price for correcting other people's work, and suggest they work with the technician who did it first. If you take her on, you have a choice of either just working on toning down the blue or doing salt removal treatments, letting the skin heal, and tattooing a lighter brow. Other ideas?
Last Edited on 3-Jun-2009 11:04 AM
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kimber
8 posts
Jun 03, 2009
11:59 AM
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She went to her follow up appointment but didn't let the woman work on her. She was very upset.
I would like to tone down the blue and achieve a nice dark brown color since she wants them dark. She said they used Cafe Ole from softap which I've used many times before. For some reason it turned almost black, blue in color. And it looks spotchy! I've never seen that happen before.
I've used the Lightening Solution from Softap for removal treatments many times. Is there another brand that you'de recommend too? I don't think that the "Lightening" from softap is a Salt water formula.
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Ms. M
242 posts
Jun 03, 2009
12:23 PM
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Kimber, you are mixing apples and oranges. A pigment color correction is what you began talking about, orange is used to modify blue or black eyebrows to a more neutral brown. Then you start talking about Lightening from SofTap being Salt water formula. That would apply to a conversation about tattoo removal. You need to be clear where you are going with this. If the design is good and it is only color that is the problem, I don't understand the talk about removal products.
Liza is the princess of L/I pigments but I personally (without seeing a photo of the color) would likely stick to the un-gray as a color modifier.
If you have the textbook, Permanent Cosmetics - The Foundation of Fundamental Applications, it goes into great detail on color corrections, modifers and refereshers and what to expect. Not to plug the textbook, but it sounds like the rest of the information in the textbook would be helpful to you as well. It can be pruchased from the SPCP at www.SPCP.org and then go to the navigation box, and go to the SPCP products.
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Maggie
1688 posts
Jun 03, 2009
1:03 PM
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I look at correction work as only ONE chance at it. It is near impossible to do a decent job at correction if more than one artist had their hands in it.
Correction work, along with camouflage, to me, is very advanced work. Work one needs to be absolutely certain about before starting in on it. Be really sure you can tread that water before you jump into the deep end.
If it were me, I would pick Ellie's first choice on the salt water lightening. If she used a dark brown and it turned out black, likely too much pigment was worked in and not consistently throughout if blotchy. I think adding more pigment of any kind at this point is not in the client's best interest. Brow tissue can only hold so much and with touch ups over the years, that skin is going to be a mess.
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LiZa
3420 posts
Jun 03, 2009
2:51 PM
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Rule: color is never lightened by adding more color.
Rule: warm color appears lighter than the equivalent density in cool color.
density example: light brunette and dark blonde may look very similar in a black/white picture. In color it is apparent that the blonde is lighter but in fact the two may be the same color 'density' (or level)
Caribbean Modifier is "modifier" that is it affects color by adding warmth in a deep orange temperature. It 'affects' the temperature, not the density of existing and added pigment.
It is not a tool to 'lighten' color.
Rule: Color can only be lightened by 'subtracting', never by 'adding'.
We're having a beautiful summer here, sorry to be so absent, but i have a dominant camping gene! hee hee
Liza Sims, Wake Up w/ Makeup LLC, Alaska
Permanent Makeup MythBuster Blog
Cosmetic Tattoo Home
LI Pigments Online Store
Citius, Altius, Fortius!
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Ms. M
243 posts
Jun 03, 2009
6:56 PM
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I understood Kimber to mean she wanted to "change" the black color when she said lighten (1st post.) It did not occur to me that she wanted to lighten black to a gray.
In the third post she indicates she wants a brown. That is why I suggested one of her two choices of saline removal or Caribbean Modifier.
If the density is strong, which remains to be seen (a picture would be helfpul) then yes, there is only somuch room at the Inn and saline would be more appropriate before adding any color. If it is weak and possibily the Cafe Ole healed very dark (I've used this color long ago and don't recall ever achieving black) due to a dark cool skin tone, then I would be tempted to go for a color mod to the desired dark brown. Kimber, you don't lighten a black to a dark brown. A lightened black is gray.
A picture and more information is needed.
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kimber
10 posts
Jun 03, 2009
9:52 PM
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I will try and get a photo online for you.
Thank you for all the advice. I just want to lighten them to a nice brown for her. Someone earlier suggested in another post to go over it with the Caribbean Modifier and I should be able to achieve a nice brown for her. It sound like I need to remove some of the dark color first before I add anymore color. This makes sence to me. I've never used the Caribbean Mod and thought that this may be "another" option.
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KatALyst
93 posts
Jun 04, 2009
6:55 AM
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Myself, personally, I find that adding one round of Anti-grey (orange) over my friend who healed in 'too green' perhaps due to a crappy pigment line I used to use, and a little on the dark side, and was enough to make them PERFECT after healing. It did lighten them enough to be right where we wanted it.
I know adding more doesn't always help the situation, but it did correct the wrong color tones, and I know those orange tones may fade first and I will have to correct it again perhaps in time, but they are perfect, and all it took was one correction application of the color. You guys may want to shoot me, but I still think color correction is the right thing to do when there is no need for tattoo removal. I have gotten others coming to me with blue-ish toned eyebrows, and I'm not going to do salt-water removal when all it needs is some of the other colors to neutralize it (another words, no design flaw.)
Although a really good understanding of color theory is a requirement. (Margie is the Mistress.)
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~Kat, CPCP~
SPCP Member & Certified
Western KY
www.CosmeticBeautySalon.com
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Brandy
632 posts
Jun 04, 2009
8:31 AM
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I think one of the things that we have to really look at before deciding to use corrective pigment colors, is how much pigment was originally deposited. If the brow is dark with unwanted undertones, then you will have to keep putting in more corrective pigment every six months to a year to keep the unwanted pigment from creaping through. And this leads me to the question no one wants to answer. How many times can we safely go into the same area of skin before we start to cause damage.
This is why a gentle saline removal of the undesired pigment followed by the target color, in my opinion, would be a better way to go.
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LiZa
3425 posts
Jun 04, 2009
1:18 PM
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exactly what i mean when referring to color density.
thanks brandy and M
Carib will warm up a dark gray and as the darkest warm up color it is reserved for the darkest modifications. UnGray is for intermediate colors and Ligthen Up! for the lightest colors.
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Liza Sims, Wake Up w/ Makeup LLC, Alaska
Permanent Makeup MythBuster Blog
Cosmetic Tattoo Home
LI Pigments Online Store
Citius, Altius, Fortius!
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sheer_3
77 posts
Jun 13, 2009
6:19 PM
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Maggie and Liza, I never get tired of reading your imputs. Every time I got refreshed and sooo satisfied to have been trained by the best!
And still I know i need more advance training in these matters,
Love,
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SHEER_3
Yolanda Pena, CPCP
Permanent Makeup Institute
Wakeup To Your Best.
www.permanentmakeupinstitute.com
ypenab@aol.com
(866)694.4.FACE
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Maggie
1705 posts
Jun 16, 2009
1:13 PM
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Thank you Yolanda...and your contributions are very valuable. It was nice reading them in the other threads, especially as it concerns the eye with you being our expert in this area. Come back more often!
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Rozan
695 posts
Jun 18, 2009
3:10 PM
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Amen!
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Rose Ann Cloud, CPCP
Permanent Cosmetics By Rozan
www.RozanCloud.com
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LiZa
3439 posts
Jun 19, 2009
12:56 PM
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I thank you as well yolanda.
I miss you and would love to speak with you.
((if i can understand a word you say, hahahaha - love you babe))
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Liza Sims, Wake Up w/ Makeup LLC, Alaska
Permanent Makeup MythBuster Blog
Cosmetic Tattoo Home
LI Pigments Online Store
Citius, Altius, Fortius!
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karla kwist
424 posts
Jul 05, 2009
10:14 PM
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I agree with lightening the black out of there, you will be chasing it forever..........
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Karla Kwist,CPCP
Las Vegas
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