water makes lids swell? omg

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water makes lids swell? omg
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LiZa 2812 post s 23-Apr-2008 10:32 AM	a tech just wrote me an email and expressed her confusion over something she had read- or was told- read i think it was. supposedly, if i'm not mistaken 'they' said that by wiping the eyeliner with a damp wipe- the water will make the eyelid swell, and instead "they" promote the use a greasy product to 'seal' in the color. *OK Everyone, put on your thinking caps.* 1. greasy substance will inhibit your grip on an eyelid, and anyone knows your grip and control of the eye is the #1 most important exercise to a successful eyeliner. 2. nothing--let me repeat this--NOTHING will 'seal' in color. if you have not hit the correct layer of skin, the pigment will come right back out with the desquamation process of the transient layers of skin. if you could 'seal' in color, we would use glue!!! Good care of a tattoo is the only thing that will help color retention. 3. water will only cause open skin to swell if you SOAK it, submerge--immerse it--for a length of time!! the gal who wrote to me knew this sounded like a crock of poo and she is right, its a crock of poo. if we were to look deeper, i would bet that 'they' are selling the 'magic sealing grease'. Look THROUGH the B.S., not at it.
Jane Adler 868 post s 23-Apr-2008 1:43 PM	OMG you got me. I was just going to write a long thing on how that is sooooooooooooooooo not true. Arrrrrrrr Then I read the post. Heheheheehehehe ---------- Jane Adler, CPCP Facial Art by Jane SofTap® Distributor OSHA Outreach Instructor http://www.janeadler.com
Maggie 1403 post s 23-Apr-2008 2:00 PM	Well if it were true than anything you use to clean with during a tattoo could cause it to swell; don't you think something with a petrolatum base would also occupy space and make for even less pigment to get into the skin according to this theory? It would also mean using eyewash would cause swelling, too. Nonsense. I think this person is misunderstanding why petroleum jelly products are used during tattooing. I never use them around the eye - they interfere with a good grip/stretch, they are BAD for your eyes and cause much redness and irritation; they would prevent the action of blue gel anesthetics if you need to reapply them, too. If these preparations have anesthetic in them, using them too much when cleaning the eye can present another set of problems. I won't even use petrolatum based products as after care product for eyeliner. I get the most retention with nothing at all.
texasdebbie 7 post s 24-Apr-2008 4:24 AM	To me the swelling comes from with in the body. your owns bodys way of reacting to the trama. but one thing that i did learn from one of my nurse client was. since some lips bleed so rapidly on some clients... instead of using a wet cotton ball to ripe with use the dry. a wet wipe increases the bleeding , so try using dry until the bleeding stops.I do think too much bleeding, don't help while you are putting in the pigment. works for me, debbie Last Edited on 24-Apr-2008 4:28 AM
Maggie 1404 post s 24-Apr-2008 6:37 AM	I agree with your swelling concepts. While I can certainly understand her theory on using dry wipes, I am not so sure about using dry 'anything' on the lips - in fact, this may be the only PC procedure I end up using Vaseline toward the end of the procedure (especially on the lower lip) because after any amount of wiping on that very thin-layered tissue, they dry out very fast and can become easily irritated. On occasion I will get a bleeder here and there and generally dose them up well with Blue Gel because the epi really helps with that. I use cold water dipped pads on the lips (squeezed out of course) and that also helps. Bleeding on a regular basis more than just an occasional "ooze" is a sign that there is a problem with technique (I am not inferring that is the case with you at all, I am just making a general statement for everyone.) Last Edited on 24-Apr-2008 6:40 AM
texasdebbie 8 post s 24-Apr-2008 9:32 AM	okay, my mouth is shut.Ya'll are way too good for me. bye, debbie
Maggie 1407 post s 24-Apr-2008 9:50 AM	Interesting comment - this forum is for people to post questions, opinions, experiences. If someone has a different opinion than you, you flee?
Jane Adler 871 post s 24-Apr-2008 10:07 AM	"Bleeding on a regular basis more than just an occasional "ooze" is a sign that there is a problem with technique" Yes!!!!, however, in a dry climate like AZ with many clients being lizards that are dehydrated you get more bleeding than other parts of the county. Just ask Liza, AZ skin is not at all like Alaska skin. I really do not wipe lips. I also use a cold pad squeezed, but instead of wiping, do a press down, hold and release. This way you get pressure and less client distress. Wiping hurts if over done. ---------- Jane Adler, CPCP Facial Art by Jane SofTap® Distributor OSHA Outreach Instructor http://www.janeadler.com
LiZa 2813 post s 24-Apr-2008 10:10 AM	texasdebbie 7 post s 24-Apr-2008 4:24 AM To me the swelling comes from with in the body. your owns bodys way of reacting to the trama. but one thing that i did learn from one of my nurse client was. since some lips bleed so rapidly on some clients... instead of using a wet cotton ball to ripe with use the dry. a wet wipe increases the bleeding , so try using dry until the bleeding stops.I do think too much bleeding, don't help while you are putting in the pigment. works for me, debbie Last Edited on 24-Apr-2008 4:28 AM texasdebbie 8 post s 24-Apr-2008 9:32 AM okay, my mouth is shut.Ya'll are way too good for me. bye, debbie geezes, what gives with all this thin skin? maggie didnt insult txdeb at all! in fact she agreed with her. she's right, the dry tissue thing does work, for sure. think of all the guys with bits of toilet paper stuck their faces ..shaving mishaps. to STOP the blood is what txdeb was explaining. to keep bleeding UNDER CONTROL is what Mags was explaining. blue gel--with its epi--does TWO valuable things:: 1, cuts down swelling and bleeding by vaso constriction. 2. keeps them numb. a little greasy/oily substance on the lips (like SWIPE) can be really helpful because it helps keep the area clean-we all know how lip color stains good grief with the drama! information exchange shouldnt be reacted to like gunfire. anyway back to the subject matter-greasy eyelids, its just unacceptable to say that a damp wipe CAUSES swelling. Petrolatum products used the eyes can and will cause problems. the eyes dont LIKE it, AND the MOST important thing on an eyeliner being the CONTROL & GRIP is ruined by a slick greasy surface. I swear. We dont even try to stir the pot, but it's always something. women! Last Edited on 24-Apr-2008 10:19 AM
Ms. M 59 post s 25-Apr-2008 1:58 AM	Lemme tell you what causes swelling - all that darn wiping and wiping and wiping during the procedure, not to mention that the tattooing process alone is responsibile for some degree of swelling. I've watch many technicians who, for some reason, feel complelled to wipe all the time. It's all a matter of what you and your client is comfortable with of course but my personal preference is to hold the skin in place and keep it that way until a complete pass is made. Even if I have to stop to keep the client comfortable, I never let go of the lid and resume in a few seconds. ONce a pass is made, then I wipe. No acutally a light wipe and pat it down. So...if a technican felt compelled not to wipe a lot that would result in less water (if using) and both could attribute to less swelling. Also there is a product I've used for years made by spenco called 2nd skin circles. Mostly water in a gel circle with an outer layer that peals off for applicaton. I keep them in the refrigerator and then apply them after an eyeliner. Cross my heart in most cases they don't appear in my after pictures they do typically not look swollen, unless of course it was a wide eyeliner and then I don't think the appearance of puffy lids can be prevented. The 2nd skin, being mostly water (69%) cools and soothes in about 10 minutes. So, I don't know where to take the water causing theory from that perspective. In this instance, it seems to do just the opposite. I truly belive that tattooing technique has an awful lot to do with how much swelling is seen after eyeliner and lips as well.
LiZa 2814 post s 25-Apr-2008 8:20 AM	Mz. M is so right! i see techs overwipe a lot on the poor eyelid. and the spenco product she talks about is fantastic, its a hydro-gel mask that is used on burns- even radiation burns because it is so soothing and it won't peel the burned skin off when removed. i unfortunately let my hydro masks sit in the box without refrigeration and they melted, all the good stuff ran out of them. Thank for your valuable input M. XO
Ms. M 60 post s 25-Apr-2008 11:14 AM	If I could figure out how to put a picture in a post (technically challenged in that respect) I would show you a couple of examples of immediately after eyeliners that were not subject to a lot of wiping and who had 2nd skin immediately after. But....I don't know how to do that and I don't follow complicated directions well. So just use your imagination.
Deborah Hern 152 post s 25-Apr-2008 12:34 PM	Hey Ladies... well...let me tell there are a lots of complusive anal tecs out there that can not stand pigments even on their gloves and are constantaly wipeing and cleaning. Then I have seen people who seem to cover everything with color and rarely wipe...... the client sits up and WALLA...they look great! I too am bucket impaired.....Deborah
Ms. M 61 post s 25-Apr-2008 12:43 PM	Deborah, I am not suggesting (and I don't think you are implying) that technicians work with a mess and never wipe. I'm suggesting that if they are conservative with the amount of pigment they have available in their needle tip (tube) that the color does not get all over the place and the line being tattooed can clearly be seen. THis results in very little if any color mess. What I have seen on the other hand is the compulstive need to wipe every few seconds. If a person needs to wipe to see where they are going, I understand, and many newer technicians will need that confidence that the process is going as planned. But on the other hand those that develop the confidence and the expertise to only use the needed amount of pigment in their device (don't overload) and stay on the eyeliner for a pass without wiping they will likely see less swelling. At the beginning of my career, I know I wiped a lot just for reassurance things were going as expected, or just to relish the vision of my work LOL. I'm past that, and again, just offering some food for thought, that wiping causes irritation, slows down the process and if a technician can develop a technique that cuts down on the wiping, they may be surprised at how much less swelling they see.
LiZa 2819 post s 25-Apr-2008 3:30 PM	here are the pics Ms. M is referring to:
Deborah Hern 153 post s 25-Apr-2008 3:39 PM	Well, considering all the variations in tools, tips and pigment vicosity...control can be challenging. I'm a big fan of the LI pigment. I seem to be able to control it just the way I want! It was the best change I made in my work! Deborah
Deborah Hern 154 post s 25-Apr-2008 3:42 PM	I likes it.... I likes it a lot.......Feels and looks like art...nice work......Me Last Edited on 25-Apr-2008 3:43 PM
Ms. M 62 post s 25-Apr-2008 5:36 PM	Thank you. I want to make it clear, since we have been talking about swelling during (and I assume that would include immediately after the eyeliner procedure,) that these are immediately after pictures. My point being that with technique and appropriate use of our supporting products, swelling can usualy be a controlled factor. Thanks Liza, I might have had to go to college to figure out how to put pictures in a post.