jdan
220 post s
8-Mar-2008
2:57 PM
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Need some input here re a client who has suffered from sporadical outward shingles for 10 years. When stressed she develops a few hives of varying size in the marionette lines, nasolab and neck regions. She wants brows desperately and I told her she was not a candidate in my opinion. She insists. I told her I would pose her situation to my colleagues and show her the feedback. She does not wish to contact her doctor as she says the doc is against all tattoos everywhere and anywhere. thanks for all your input. dani
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Jane Adler
850 post s
8-Mar-2008
4:42 PM
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Hi, Shingles is reflected by a "Dermatome", a single nerve that hits a specific area. If in the nose lip area, probably not an issue with brow tattooing (unless has it when being worked on). However, without written consent from her doctor is a no go. Especially, since she is not interested in getting one, that is a red flag. A Dermatome is an area of skin associated with a pair of dorsal roots from the spine. ---------- Jane Adler, CPCP Facial Art by Jane SofTap® Distributor OSHA Outreach Instructor http://www.janeadler.com
Last Edited on 8-Mar-2008 7:47 PM
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Brandy
433 post s
8-Mar-2008
4:52 PM
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Absolutely don't do them without her doctors permission. Any stress can promote an outbreak and it seems the older they are the more susceptible. You don't want the worry of them calling you and telling you they have some bumps in the brow area that are painful and red and now somehow you have taken on the resposibility. It's not worth it no matter how much they beg.
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Maggie
1372 post s
8-Mar-2008
5:46 PM
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Has she ever broken out on her face? I know there can be problems with the eyes. You said liner in the topic listing but then go on to talk about eyebrows. Really I find eyebrows pretty much okay to tattoo on everyone. If this woman wants to risk that, and she signs off knowing it is a possibility I would likely do them. She obviously wants them bad enough. I guess if someone had a heavy hand it could maybe be a little traumatic but with a light touch, clients fall asleep during the procedure. I hate to be the one to always state things contrary to everyone else but I would do them - send her to me, LOL! Seriously, couldn't she get an antiviral and pre-medicate to be on the safe side? I would think it would help like antivirals help for HSV1 even though I know zoster is different.
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Jane Adler
851 post s
8-Mar-2008
7:44 PM
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Hi, I can see what Maggie is talking about. Herpes Zoster usually remains on a path of a single nerve (Dermatome), if not always. Pretty darn rare to get in more than one area of the face, as an example. However, the red flag is her not wanting to take any concern for her health for vanity. Better safe than sorry. If not showing that side of her personality, I would type up additional consent for this type of client. Adding since she has had "Shingles" in her lower facial region the client understand additional risks of a possible outbreak in the area previously affected or another and is willing to take on all responsibility for getting her eyebrows done against doctors recommendation. something like that. You need to follow your inner tattoo artist voice. I would have her write out in her won word that she has never had an ocular breakout or any problems with brow area. Never a bad idea to also have a third party witness signature and date too. Hives or documented shingels?? Or is she assuming? Shingles is very very very painful! Not just itchy hives? ---------- Jane Adler, CPCP Facial Art by Jane SofTap® Distributor OSHA Outreach Instructor http://www.janeadler.com
Last Edited on 8-Mar-2008 7:45 PM
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Jane Adler
852 post s
8-Mar-2008
8:32 PM
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Just some fyi's "Although shingles can occur in anyone exposed to the varicella-zoster virus, research has established two general risk factors for the disease: (1) Advanced age; and (2) A weakened immune system. Studies show that people over age 80 have a five times greater chance of having shingles than adults between the ages of 20 and 40. Unlike herpes simplex I, the varicella-zoster virus does not usually flare up more than once in adults with normally functioning immune systems." Herpes Zoster Causes and Risks: Herpes zoster, or shingles, is caused by the same virus that causes chickenpox . It occurs as a result of the virus becoming dormant (inactive) after an attack of chickenpox and re-emerging many years later. The cause of the reactivation is unknown. Usually only one attack occurs, without recurrence. If an adult is exposed to herpes zoster virus and has not had chickenpox, a severe case of chickenpox usually develops rather than shingles. The virus resides in a dormant condition in the nerve tracts that emerge from the spine. When it is reactivated, it spreads along the nerve tract, first causing pain or a burning sensation. The typical rash appears in 2 to 3 days, after the virus has reached the skin. It consists of red patches of skin with small blisters ( vesicles ) that look very similar to early chickenpox. The rash maximizes over the next 3 to 5 days. Then the blisters break forming small ulcers which begin to dry and form crusts. The crusts fall off in 2 to 3 weeks, leaving behind pink healing skin. Lesions typically appear along a single dermatome (the body area served by a single spinal nerve) and are only on one side of the body (unilateral). The trunk is most often affected, showing a rectangular belt of rash from the spine around one side of the chest to the breastbone (sternum). Lesions may also occur on the neck or face, particularly the trigeminal nerve in the face. The trigeminal has three branches: the superior which goes to the forehead, the middle which goes to the mid-face and the inferior which goes to the lower face. Which branch is involved determines where on the face the skin lesions will be. Trigeminal nerve involvement may include lesions in the mouth or eye. Eye lesions may lead to permanent blindness . Involvement of the facial nerve may cause Ramsay Hunt syndrome with facial paralysis , hearing loss , loss of taste in half of the tongue and skin lesions around the ear and ear canal. Shingles may, on rare occasion, involve the genitalia or upper leg. Shingles may be complicated by a condition known as post-herpetic neuralgia . This is persistence of pain in the area where the shingles occurred that may last from months to years following the initial episode. This pain can be severe enough to be incapacitating to a person, especially if they are elderly. Herpes zoster can be contagious through direct contact in an individual who has not had chickenpox and therefore has no immunity . Herpes zoster may affect any age group but is much more common in adults over 60 years old, in children who had chickenpox before the age of one year, and in individuals who are immunocompromised. The disorder is common, with about 300,000 cases in the U.S. per year (about 2 out of every 1,000 people). Localized shingles involving only one dermatome is typical for an outbreak of shingles. Generalized or recurrent shingles may indicate an underlying disorder with the immune system such as leukemia , Hodgkin's disease , other cancers, atopic dermatitis , or HIV infection (ARC or AIDS ). Those who are immunosuppressed because of organ transplant or treatment for cancer or similar disorders may also experience the disorder. Shingles may be an early sign in persons with HIV infection that the immune system has deteriorated enough that they would now be classified as having ARC (AIDS Related Complex) or AIDS. 
---------- Jane Adler, CPCP Facial Art by Jane SofTap® Distributor OSHA Outreach Instructor http://www.janeadler.com
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Brandy
434 post s
8-Mar-2008
9:01 PM
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I speak from experience. I had a senior come in to get her brows done about four months ago. On her consent form she disclosed that she had shingles. I asked her how long ago and where on her body. She said about fifteen years ago and on her stomach. I thought, hmmmm good to go. About a week later she called me and said she had a couple of pimple like spots around her brows and they were quite painful and that she was putting warm compresses on the area and that seemed to help. I was thinking and hoping nothing to worry about but my gut feeling was to tell her to go to the doctor, because of her age (81). I called her the next day and she told me the doctor said it was shingles. Now the odd thing is, the doctor told her it had nothing to do with the tattooing. This is the second senior that this has happened to, the first was with eyeliner a couple of years ago. Regardless of what her doctor thinks, it is not worth the risk and worry for me to do these ladies without doctors consent and anti-virals.
Last Edited on 8-Mar-2008 9:03 PM
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Maggie
1374 post s
9-Mar-2008
8:28 AM
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Good info, Jane...please post research links so we can bookmark them when you put this stuff on the message board.
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Jane Adler
853 post s
9-Mar-2008
9:17 AM
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Good idea, I aways forget to do that! ---------- Jane Adler, CPCP Facial Art by Jane SofTap® Distributor OSHA Outreach Instructor http://www.janeadler.com
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jdan
222 post s
9-Mar-2008
12:08 PM
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Fantastic input!! My appreciation to you all. If no one minds I want to print out all responses and give them to her so she can have a more thorough understanding as to why it would not be a good choice to do her unless her doc thinks otherwise. I am definitely adding "shingles" to my concern sheet. Thanks Jane for the lengthy info....dani
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stylist
174 post s
9-Mar-2008
8:13 PM
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Jane , This is so good, I would like to save this for future references. I am not that great with the computer( but so willing to learn) Can you tell me how to save this . Nancy
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facecrafter
617 post s
9-Mar-2008
8:23 PM
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One way to do it is: Highlight the text you want to save. Right click. Select COPY Open a new word document. PASTE into the document. Then save as whatever anme you want. I set up a folder called "technical info" that I keep stuff like this in. And yes Jane I copied this one too! Thanks. ---------- Be well and beautiful, :)udy judy@facecrafter.com www.facecrafter.com 941-351-1333 RevitaLash! Get Longer-Thicker-Darker Lashes. And, fill in Brows too!
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stylist
175 post s
9-Mar-2008
8:37 PM
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Judy, You are so there for me.I want to be just like you when I grow up. Thanks for the info. I think I can do that. lol Nancy
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Maggie
1377 post s
10-Mar-2008
3:20 AM
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That is fine to highlight and save but I like original references in case I am ever challenged for choices, statements, etc. I make because of them. Besides, when we reprint something someone else wrote, we really should be citing the origin, right?
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facecrafter
618 post s
10-Mar-2008
5:10 AM
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Yes, Mags, attribution is important for reference in a publication, but for my own reference, I note who gave it to me (Jane) and that's it. On forums like this, people rarely attribute info to the sources, and that's OK. A lot of it is copied from other sources on the net, etc. and we expect that. ---------- Be well and beautiful, :)udy judy@facecrafter.com www.facecrafter.com 941-351-1333 RevitaLash! Get Longer-Thicker-Darker Lashes. And, fill in Brows too!
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Maggie
1378 post s
11-Mar-2008
6:22 AM
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"On forums like this, people rarely attribute info to the sources, and that's OK." I guess I disagree. If I spent hours on end writing something and it was republished somewhere else you can be sure I would want it referenced back to me. Of course now this is digressing to a different topic altogether so I will leave this be.
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Jane Adler
855 post s
11-Mar-2008
12:58 PM
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?? Try http://www.shingels.com or just type shingels it in yahoo to find the source. ---------- Jane Adler, CPCP Facial Art by Jane SofTap® Distributor OSHA Outreach Instructor http://www.janeadler.com
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NancyE
17 post s
19-Mar-2008
8:19 PM
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Re: Shingles. There is a vaccine now for Shingles. Even if you have had shingles, you can still get the vaccine. It is recommended in people over the age of 60. Most insurance companies will NOT pay for the vaccine and it is very expensive,..$250.00 at the office I work in. The vaccine works very well,...it's called Zostavax. One time vaccine, so no boosters. Will post more info on this tomorrow. NancyE
Last Edited on 19-Mar-2008 8:20 PM
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